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Post by Drei on Apr 19, 2017 14:30:36 GMT -6
There was a pause before he spoke. A lingering silence after the faint inhale that punctuated their conversation. He tried to scour his memories further to recall such things. His parents had certainly never mentioned it. Though her breakdown of the flaws with elemental spirits and the notion that animals could effectively brandish higher intelligence however started to wane his interest, though he hid it well. Magic interested him far more than animals did. Luckily for him that the topic was shifted however.
The notion that spirits lurked within the nether was not impossible by any means. However the implication further so was divided by various other interpretations of the nether. Though the void was a vast sprawling entity the interactions with others varied so much so that it made things a..complex matter to say the least. From different aspects praying upon different emotions or portions of the mind, and even further yet some times simply expunging entire minds if given the opportunity while others had a proclivity for brandishing it with far lesser incidents. In Drei's case, it even expunged memories evidently. So he assumed at-least unless that was sourced in another matter entirely and his ignorance merely clumped them into the same category.
"Spirits of the Nether? I am...unsure what you mean. I know of the nether's aspects which are simply fragmented portions of the greater teaming whole that is the nethers will itself. Often times the smaller ones being the ones people commune with as opposed to the entire teaming mass that was the void. Did you have a different intent when you asked, or was I able to adequately guess?"
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Post by Althea on Apr 19, 2017 14:44:58 GMT -6
"Does the Nether truly have a will, I wonder?" Althea posed it as a neutral question, at least in theory, but a hint of doubt existed in her words nonetheless, a niggling worm of uncertainty burrowing throughout. There were as many theories as to what the Nether was as there were idiots willing to kill in the name of religion, varying from the Nether being the domain of a long forgotten dark god, a sentient being itself, a collective consciousness spread across its component selves (spirits - probably), an alternate universe entirely, the dark reflection of Elibe... even bolder theories, like Warp theory, which suggested that the Nether was simply the reflection of the collective minds of all humanity - that its darkness was simply the result of their actions - and that gods could form from the immaterial coalescence of so many negative emotions.
All SHE knew was that dark magic came from there, that the Nether fed off of emotion, and that Eris... claimed to be a spirit hailing from that dismal place... if it was really a place at all. "There is so little we truly know of that domain," the shaman segued smoothly, slipping through Drei's question. "We dark mages draw power from it, trading... something to its inscrutable ambitions, in return for magical power. There are countless tales of it consuming the selves of its wielders... but what does it do with them? That it feeds on emotion is a certainty, but what does it lack that it must sustain itself on our weakness? And for that matter, is 'The Nether' truly an it at all? Is it a person, a place, a thing? Is there some ancient villain lurking in its depths, drawing breath with each sacrifice we offer him to hasten his ruinous return to reality ever sooner?"
She smiled slightly, not feeling the need to shift in her chair but simultaneously bemused and a little hesitant as she considered her words more carefully as she continued. "Elder magics have been with me my entire life, and those questions alive for most of it, but it was not until recently that I truly realized how little we actually know of the truth. I... never cast heavily, in... combat," she faltered slightly, still not quite comfortable with saying 'I didn't start friggin butchering scrubs with evil magic til recently, yolo lol' regardless of wording, "so I did not understand how intense the feedback loop of its effects on emotion was. With so little information on its true nature, it leaves me to wonder how wise drawing on its eldritch might truly is... not that I have much choice in the matter. This world demands power, and I have little else with which to defend myself."
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Post by Drei on Apr 19, 2017 15:10:53 GMT -6
She rose many questions. Many that he had pondered and even more that he had a feeling humanity as a whole pondered. The Shaman quietly extended his palm. Amber hues drifting along the length of his pale digits as he watched his fingers curl and retract. With just the faintest exertion of will, his body's internal conduit caused faint wisps of darkness to exude from his finger tips like miniature blackened veins blossoming outwards. Slowly feeding into a central orb the size of a marble, the magic responded almost instantly to his will. The Shaman thinking upon her points, he tried to guide and sculpt the tiny globe of shadows even while he chewed and digested his response. Sifting through his own theories before quietly speaking up.
"Then there's Bramimond. He who mastered the darkness. We struggle to wield it effectively like a weapon, slowly feeding more of ourselves in exchange. Yet one arose with such vast control or mastery, or perhaps was simply strong enough naturally to fell dragons. How this was done, history does not definitively say..but should our own fables prove true it means that there is some alternative method to controlling it. How can we strive to such levels without losing ourselves?"
He paused for a moment in idle silence before continuing.
"The notion that the void is somewhere we can traverse has always intrigued me. However with the effects on our minds and bodies just from a proxied exposure, I can not fathom what might become of those who directly were to enter such a dark hostile place. Does the void itself try to conquer you externally there like it would internally if left unchecked? Despite the dangers there is possibility in this line of thought."
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Post by Althea on Apr 19, 2017 15:17:42 GMT -6
"Branimond..." There were few scholars and fewer practitioners of elder magics who had not heard that hallowed name, a man whose mastery of shadow was so great that none dared contest it. Given that she fit both slots, Althea was certainly familiar with the name. "Most scholars agree that it was the combination of the Heroes and their weapons that turned the tides of the Scouring, but there is much debate over whether the heroes themselves were truly that powerful, or if their weapons were a significant or even primary portion of their influence." She frowned. "It is difficult to pull the two apart, but it raises one question; how did Branimond master the darkness so? Was it solely his natural talent, or did his tome, Apocalypse, reveal it to him? If the latter, I can but wonder what secrets were hidden in those pages, what we could learn as scholars from its treatises upon the Nether..."
It was perhaps a sign of Althea's warped mindset that the thought of USING Apocalypse didn't even occur to her, simply the ideal of knowledge to be gleaned from it. She did not dislike the Nether, nor even distrust it per se - so far it had been a stable and reliable ally - but for one such as her, to not know was the greatest insult, a state of affairs that could not be brooked or allowed to exist.
A small part of her noted that Drei seemed to view channeling his magic as some form of meditative exercise or relaxative ritual, a minor note that drew her eyes but not the bulk of her thought just yet. Another thing she had never really considered. Might it still cost a very small amount of emotion? "Traversing the void is part and parcel of most theories of the Nether as a place, a plane or alternate reality - warp and mirror theory in particular - but one long viewed as impossible to test." Her words were careful and calm as they typically were when thoughtful, not yet carried away by her theories. ...Yet. "Perhaps the entry barrier is such that only those of sufficient power can do it. History states that Branimond disappeared shortly after the Scouring and was never seen again. I wonder if he found a way to travel between worlds and visit it?"
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Post by Drei on Apr 19, 2017 15:31:42 GMT -6
One thing remained true no matter which aspect of Branimond's power was truly the greater. Be it book or man, it was power that had been attained. There for, it could be attained again. His tome known to be the highest of all was merely a source. Whether it revealed the means to attain it, served as some extraordinarily rare catalyst for ultimate control of dark powers, or some other means, it had been something brandished by man and brought about by man. Though no doubt there were costs to obtaining it, especially when the nether was involved, but it was as of yet not out of the realm of possibility that it could be replicated. If it did have a cost, the cost was not one so great as to prevent him from assisting his fellow heroes in combating the dragons.
Drei ceased the flow of magic before turning somewhat. Shifting a bit before returning his hand to his chin and clasping at it with curled digits to absently stroke at the tip while he formulated his response.
"I can't help but wonder. Apocalypse. A powerful tome able to weave dark magic so powerful that it sundered dragons with ease supposedly. Was it a normal tome? Inked in standard pen with normal parchment and bound by the same forms of hard leather or softer leathers? Or was it special? Did it have some form of dark entity woven and branded into it that guided his hand? Certainly it could explain the power, and delves into your question of spirits of the nether. However if this is the case there's no attribute towards it in lore. I suppose though only the wielder would truly know for sure? If it was not special it means that there was some method, or manner in which he wielded the powers of the Nether that made it far less dangerous towards him. "
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Post by Althea on Apr 19, 2017 15:44:03 GMT -6
"A tome with a... dark entity..." Althea couldn't say as that she was entirely... grateful for Drei's perspective, the thoughts it brought to mind, the possibilities it entailed - it was a logical extension of Circe's theories - but what it actually meant was - she cut off that train of thought swiftly. The shamaness did not believe in forbidden knowledge - but she was self aware enough to realize that this was not the best time to delve too deeply into that train of thought, not mid conversation at least. And it was possible there was a modicum of cowardice mixed in there as well.
But the seeds had been planted. And she remembered what had happened at the ruins in Nabata alongside Circe.
Myriad emotions flashed across her typically inexpressive face as the slender shamaness attempted to compose herself, cursing both her lack of perspective and Drei's... non lacking perspective. Though to be fair. There were practical differences that made it... unlikely to be directly relevant to her situation. The grimoire itself seemed relatively harmless. "If... your theory is true," she said cautiously, as much to distract herself as to filter out her own thoughts, "I... wonder if Branimond was truly himself by the end of the Scouring... and what of himself he truly traded for that power." Was that why he had disappeared? A Faustian bargain with a cost beyond reasoning? What could cause a man to trade so much? Selfless dedication to humanity? Thirst for knowledge? Althea didn't think she could do either. Had Branimond been that different from her?
"It does make sense that the Nether would be much less dangerous to a native than to a mortal, though, acting as a gateway or filter to allow Branimond to cast magics that would instantly consume the two of us. Certainly there must have been an incredible skill gap as well, but there are limits to what the human form and mind are capable of, no matter how much of a prodigy they mgiht be."
Were there really, though? Was it possible that he had simply found those all too human limiters and crushed them to dust, powering through on the way to becoming something far more than a man? But he had fought for humanity. Even if so, he had certainly not given up all of himself, at least not during the duration of the Scouring. It raised questions of its own. "We may never know, though. Unlike most of the Legendary Weapons, Apocalypse disappeared with its owner shortly after the Scouring, never to return. Whatever secrets were held within its pages may be lost to us forever unless we re-discover them on our own."
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Post by Drei on Apr 19, 2017 16:04:43 GMT -6
She truly raised thought provoking questions. Especially in the fields of the potential for costs. What would it have cost? Would one be robbed entirely? The essence of the nether often demanded tribute. Memories. Emotions. Souls. Quite literally everything that one could offer was potentially up for grab. This was also assuming the void didn't simply consume one's mind or soul entirely and claim their body as a withered husk to manipulate like a decayed and uncared for marionette. Such was the fate of those who knew not their limitations. As Drei tapped at his chin though he expounded on his thoughts, trying to imagine how precisely the penultimate dark mage had achieved such feats.
"I believe..that what ever the cost it must've either been delayed, or something that did not inhibit bodily functions and thought. Remember, he wielded this for a portion of the war. Had be been enveloped in the void and left a monstrosity or mindless husk I'm sure he would've been either far less effective or a threat to his comrades. Which...assuming such leads me to believe that he either had control of himself through out this...or had some way to command the nether to its fullest without giving what we otherwise would not have. Even as you observe, the cost for his speculated magics is so far beyond what we could allow or handle that there must have been an equalizer or balance. Something allowed him to wield these and not die or lose himself in totality. However...you are correct. Either way the secrets may be lost. I suspect rediscovering it would take time..and be costly...but may have merit. Enough not to dismiss it at-least."
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Post by Althea on Apr 19, 2017 16:22:16 GMT -6
Delayed costs. Ones that did not... inhibit function or thought. And her own paradigm. As far as Althea could tell, when she cast her own emotions were inflamed rather than drained - as though the Nether somehow reacted with an amplified them, feeding off of the exponential increase rather than the underwhelming base. At least that was her theory. The problem was that she didn't know if it was true, and she had little way to truly test it. There were too many confounding factors and variables, and they didn't have the understanding of the Nether to truly say 'this is how it works' or 'that doesn't work.' "Doesn't it strike you as strange that, as a discipline, we cannot truly explain the source of our power? Imagine an anima magic user stating that it didn't matter where they drew their power from. A historian claiming that an ancient battle held no meaning. Even light magic at least agrees on its dual sources - human spirit, Elimine's blessing - even if the latter is of dubious veracity at best. Only dark magic is content to say - we don't know - but we don't care so long as it works."
Althea shook her head, reproachful of the very concept of being satisfied to not know. "I do not fear that which has saved my life so many times. But I believe we owe it to ourselves to understand our magic to its most fundamental depths. Whether to damn or exonerate it as the facts may lead." Her voice was quiet but firm, filled with the absolute certainty of perceived fact rather than the blind zealotry of belief, even if in truth there was little difference between the two. "Perhaps Branimond's discovery was simply the nature of the Nether, and in that understanding he reforged his relationship with it. Perhaps there is a way to mitigate, or even negate, its cost. Or perhaps sufficient willpower allows one to ignore its cost entirely so long as their will holds out." None of which seemed to apply to her, sadly. Althea knew she didn't have the willpower or emotional control to manage that, and even if it seemed to work oddly on her, it was far from nonexistent - merely a seemingly different flavor of emotional drain.
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Post by Drei on Apr 19, 2017 17:00:44 GMT -6
The shaman was quiet for a moment. She was right not to fear the elder magics. He knew he couldn't. Respect it? Absolutely. Give it space if rampant sure. Fear? No. Drei knew what dark magic was capable of in skilled, and unskilled hands. For this very reason he pushed himself ever onwards to further master it to the greatest levels of his own capability. Even if he were to not be the next great dark druid, it would still be a reliable driving motivation. The shaman turned a bit more to gaze at her with a sagely nod.
"To fear our own magic is for the bear to fear its own maw, or a cat its claws. Respecting the power of the nether is appropriate, but fearing it would only serve to weaken."
He hesitated before shifting to the next tone of conversation.
"Understanding more about that which we wield can lead to further developments. Even as you say, and To bridge it to our previous points, perhaps indeed that was what allowed him to more expertly command its power. The ability to sculpt or brandish or conjure more at will based on a prior understanding. Just as you can not build raise a roof before you create the foundation to support it mayhap? Though it does give me pause to conjure a theory. Perhaps...the comprehension on its origin and the source allows for a greater understanding of how to draw on it with less risk. Once you know where a fire comes from, you can guide and sculpt the path that fire will travel, as it were."
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Post by Althea on Apr 19, 2017 17:08:23 GMT -6
"People fear what they do not understand," she intoned, not exactly... original but content to be woefully derivative in this one scenario, given the relevance of the saying. "Perhaps advancing the understanding of elder magics could lead to their eventual acceptance..." Althea couldn't help but smile wryly, her lips twisting into something approximating a smile, though one that lacked entirely in joy. It reminded her of what her parents had preached, that understanding brought acceptance. She didn't think that they were wrong, but they had run out of time. Was this truly her belief, or was she simply parroting theirs? The shaman thought she agreed with it on its own merits, but to ignore formative influences was to miss part of the story, and separating the two was difficult at best from a limited perspective.
Still. That didn't mean it wasn't a question worth asking. Only that it wouldn't be as easy as a more clearly black and white query. "Though I agree with your theory. Understanding the fundamentals is required to truly maximize any kind of magic. Our discipline is no different. Doubly so for a kind that claim to value knowledge above all else." She just happened to have some personal motivation to learn more about it than the average shaman, that was all. Althea didn't distrust Eris, exactly, but neither did she trust the mysterious spirit. She simply didn't have the necessarily data to make an objectively defensible position. Fearing the unexpected would make her no better than those terrified of dark magic, while blind trust had led many a man, mage or otherwise, to damnation and destruction.
"And it is intriguing conceptually that in some ways we seek the origin - the root of magic. The schools of Light and Anima are well understood, but we still have a chance to make some fundamental breakthrough in ours, no matter how old it may be. Unlikely perhaps, but the possibility lurks." She smiled, but this time there was a tinge of genuine interest in her soft lips. "It's sort of exciting, isn't it?"
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Post by Drei on Apr 19, 2017 19:15:55 GMT -6
Fear. The sole cause for the sorrows that had befallen his family. Everything they endured, and the murders that plagued his mind to this day were all product of a deep rooted fear for what they could not comprehend and were too intimidated to attempt to. Though she spoke of his very own dream...realism bled through.
"Maybe some...but I suspect it would be many many generations before dark magic was no longer feared as it is now. Ours is but to lay the foundation, I think."
So many unknowns. The most core ones being the most important factors of their magic and yet it was left as a giant variable. A big X factor. She was indeed right that it would make the discoveries that much more monumental and satisfying. It also added a mysticism to it. Elemental mages and commanders of Anima knew what they commanded. Could a Shaman even answer that? What was the nether? What precisely was the source of the powers they commanded? It was impossible to tell really, and it made it even harder to explain. All they understood was the "How" of dark magic. Even then, to a limited degree. Their generations and those to come would truly be the pioneers. If society didn't wipe their kind out entirely.
The shaman tilted his head and gazed towards her with a quiet nod before chewing on his thoughts a bit later after the pale haired female brought up these pioneering notions.
"I suppose it is. We may make discoveries that alter or enhance the methods of generations to come. Should we log it." quiet nod before chewing on his thoughts a bit later after the pale haired female brought up these pioneering notions.
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Post by Althea on Apr 19, 2017 19:55:52 GMT -6
It didn't matter if it was her own dream or not, Althea decided. She certainly wasn't the first to think of it, after all. So what if her parents had instilled it into her rather than her coming up with it herself? In the end. What mattered was that she followed it of her own free will. By her own choice, not some unyielding fate, not by conditioning, not by weak-willed continuation. But by rational adoption, conscious decision; whether it was right or wrong was no longer meaningful. Only that she had considered the possibilities, weighed their respective values, and by her own free will decided on one. It wasn't the only thing she wanted to do with her life, perhaps not even the greatest, but it was something she could actually call her own - even if it had belonged to another in the past.
She privately hoped that she didn't pay for it in the same way her parents had, though.
Speaking of payment... Althea's mind spiraled off its neat track and into the abyss of freedom. While they were on the subject, she realized, it might be wise to bring up one of her concerns to Drei and see if he had any idea what the material might be. Without incriminating herself too far. Rousing herself to a more upright sitting position, she turned to face the other shaman more directly, aware that despite her careful attempt at neutrality her face still bore some creases of concern but unable to entirely control herself. Not that it mattered, a small part of her more practical mind reasoned, coldly pragmatic beyond the pale of humanity. It made sense for her to be concerned about the emotional disturbance, and that truth would hide the lie of what she was omitting. A self-made cover-up of sorts, truth within lies within truth.
"While we are on the, ah, subject... have you heard of heavy, er, Nether usage strengthening emotions, rather than dampening them?" It didn't take long for Althea's calmly complex speech patterns to devolve into frustratingly honest nervousness, blindly grasping through the question as though she were a child again. It was a strange sort of honesty mixed with an even stranger deception, and she wasn't even sure WHY it bothered her so much.
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Post by Drei on Apr 19, 2017 21:41:22 GMT -6
Strengthening emotions? As a direct byproduct it was unheard of to him personally. The shaman quietly tapped a finger to his upper right temple while propping his elbow into a nestled pocket formed by his alternate hand's palm. Trying to discern if he'd ever experienced it. After a brief pause the shaman spoke up directly. Though there was a hesitance in him before he drew upon past experience. Able to open up a bit easier to her than normal at-least.
"As far as I know..never as a direct product of it. However I know that the Nether is a vast cunning dangerous thing.Though I am...cautious to reveal much, my connections have never dampened my emotions. Rather, it has combed at my inner weakness. It seems far too easy to be swept up in the dangerous tendrils of power it offers. So I have learned to compose myself to better sculpt and draw only upon the force necessary. That said...the Nether often claims its prize after I am finished. Which, to my knowledge, is not precisely a common thing to all. Though also not unheard of. So it would there for not be beyond reason to say that it may enhance various emotions in an attempt to lure you into over-exerting in those moments of emotional outburst or swell. That is, of-course, to assume you are prone to such. If you personally are not victim to such and merely ask from a scholarly perspective then I sadly can not offer much beyond an attempt at insight based upon further divulged information. "
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Post by Althea on Apr 19, 2017 22:31:52 GMT -6
Given his delayed response and actions, Althea surmised that the other shaman had taken a moment to actually consider her request rather than dismiss it out of hand as she was relatively certain most would. The truth was that she didn't understand it either - as far as she knew that was literally not how dark magic worked - which led to her confusion. Either it had something to do with a yet unrevealed fundamental of Elder magic, perhaps something that Branimond had discovered (unlikely - she was no prodigy), or it had something to do with Eris (likely - it was a recent development). Wonderful. Just wonderful. She was going to quit her job as a researcher and become a bloody nun.
It seemed that Drei knew little about the specifics of her condition, but in turn revealed something of his. Interestingly, his was one she was not familiar with either - dark magic tended to have near instant repercussions, equivalent exchange so to speak. A magical and emotional cost. Her situation was no exception; just because the methods varied slightly from the norm did not mean that they were all THAT unique. Still. It did not defy any laws that she knew of, not that there were many laws to dark magic. In the end, they both bore the cost for their magic, whether it was immediate or delayed, amplifying or dulling emotions. So it wasn't THAT surprising when she thought about it. "I see." A slim hand, slender fingers, trailed her chin for a moment as she thought in turn about Drei's comments. "Thank you for sharing," she said almost offhand after a moment, realizing a little belatedly that he had confided in her at least slightly, even if it was nothing particularly dark or secret.
After a brief pause, the shamaness continued somewhat more certainly, turning her attention back to her counterpart in full. "...Yes, it is a recent development for me. It seems as though casting feeds off of my... anger, though I had not realized until the earlier battle that repeated casting could exacerbate the effects so significantly." Was she just going to turn into some kind of rage beast? Althea didn't think she had lost control at all there, at least not that she could tell. She just got mad. Which was pretty rare for her, sure, but... hm. Well. Something to keep in mind. And maybe grill Eris about later. "Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I have not noticed any... ill effects yet, but it is certainly something I should like to keep a close eye on. Allowing superfluous emotion in battle is a dangerous game when wrestling with the forces we weaponize."
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Post by Drei on Apr 20, 2017 15:27:39 GMT -6
As the oceanic scents swept through and past them, Drei quietly turned his gaze away for a few lingering moments. The rocking of the shift starting to take a lull once more as Drei felt himself slowly falling into that very lull. The ashen haired Sacaen clasped his palms together before stretching his neck as he craned his head to the left slowly. A faint series of rippling pops followed from his stationary nature while he listened to Althea profess thanks before mentioning more of her plight. Theorizing somewhat before hand that was indeed why she'd asked. Though it was a strange case to him, he was positive he was a strange case to most as well.
Turning on his heel slowly, Drei quietly let his hands fall to his sides before lowering his body in a standard bow towards the pale haired female magic wielder. His back bent and head tucked, he nodded as he rose before allowing a ghost of a smile to hazard upon his features while he quietly chimed in. Speaking up almost purely to excuse himself. A few weeks ago? He'd have simply walked away. Once he'd begun traveling with Mila though he learned that it would be best to adhere to cultural norms on the matters of conversation etiquette.
"I would like to thank you for your conversation. It was not only enlightening, but very pleasant to engage in an informational exchange upon matters so personal to us both. It is always nice to enjoy an exchange of informed opinions on matters so prevalent like the nether and its composition. I would take my leave of you now however so I can return to my own studies of a tome."
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