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Post by Willow on Jul 8, 2015 15:05:51 GMT -6
I'd talked this idea through with Nayru a little while back, and we both thought it might be interesting to bring up.
What about allowing staff magic to be used to enchant magical weapons?
Given the whole Ivaldi issue a while back, I agree that Strength should be excluded, but I think allowing the others (Physic, Fortify, Barrier, Warp, Silence, and Nightmare) to be used on magical weapons might create a new dimension and add flare and flavor.
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Selibas
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Post by Selibas on Jul 8, 2015 18:03:26 GMT -6
Warp sounds ba.
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Borgus
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Post by Borgus on Jul 8, 2015 22:14:07 GMT -6
I think it is a bad idea, and I am not just saying that because I own a strength hammer. Some of the spells used in staffs do not go well with weapons. Imagine a blade that heals you or your enemy. It would be both over power and stupid. NOt to mention the game breaker power of a warp blade. Teleportation and swordsmanship,
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Post by Ryuzaki on Jul 8, 2015 22:21:41 GMT -6
Well, no, you see. A healing blade would be good flavor - it's like having a healing staff and an exotic weapon rod, so that you can heal yourself and bash people with it.
And as Hal pointed out, Warp only works on friendly targets. Thus it's not a game breaker, nor a teleportation sword - it just lets you move more easily to other allies.
Plus, look at all of the options:
Physic will give you a semi-accurate long-range healing sword. Nice for monster-hunting, but checked by the fact that it's too risky to use in a crowded combat scenario, since magical weapons lose control over distance. Thus you risk healing your opponent.
Same thing with Fortify, except it's useful if you're in a clump of friends. If you have any enemies nearby, it again becomes risky.
Barrier seems the most 'broken' at first glance, but again, without control over the spell, the barrier would be more short-lived than usual. It would be a temporary stopgap, nothing more - not like a lvl 2 barrier from a Bishop.
Warp has already been mentioned.
Silence and Nightmare are similar in that both can be assumed to be relatively inaccurate/have a lower probability of working on stronger characters. And I would again assume that with less control comes a lower 'durability' or duration of the spell's effects.
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Post by Remus on Jul 8, 2015 22:28:40 GMT -6
While a healing sword would seem cool, honestly? It's less incentive for people to play healers that are there /now/. When I made Remus, there wern't any major active healers. No one was actively roleplaying them atleast, and I don't see people actually /using/ healing staves often. The idea that you can stab someone with a weapon and then heal wingman 2 right next to you means that you wouldn't really need a dedicated healer.
While the barrier one seems REALLY cool to me, I think the others seem to fall under almost invalidating healers given their little incentive to be played already, or being strong/useless aspect.
A different way to put it.
Warp: As you pointed out. Teleports allies to you, or you to allies. Who is going to chose that, over a weapon that can fire off powerful elements or mentally destroy people? Kudos to them sure! I just don't think many people would given it's ally lock.
Nightmare seems like it'd either be almost entirely useless or completely broken. I just don't see how that could be balanced. Either it doesn't work at all, and it was useless...or it does work and you win because they can't fight back.
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Post by Nayru Al-Saiduq on Jul 8, 2015 23:16:13 GMT -6
Mod hat off - just responding as a member.
I personally really like the idea of a warp sword, very FE7 Swordmaster-ish. Yeah it's nowhere near as flashy as a mastered Volcanon axe sending gouts of magma everywhere or a mastered Ruin sword impaling people on tentacles oh my, but it'd be a weird/fun mobility option for assassins, rogues, swordmasters - the fast guys who want to close distance quickly against distant enemies. Would also be somewhat of a mage counter, which to be fair Regal swords already kinda are, but I don't mind the idea of there being a few options for people who want a different aesthetic than "lol I cut thru magic." Staff users can already do that, frankly, Warp+Strength+Barrier already turns you into a teleporting melee monster, AND you can still heal full power without any issues. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the idea of a 700-lbs-of-armor General casually teleporting around the map though... I dunno if class locks would work (who's to say a mercenary can use it but a fighter can't?) but that would probably be something to deal with.
I don't think any real variety of ranged healing would work - magic weapons are explicitly complete crap at controlling magic beyond a short distance from the blade, so they can't use long-range magic at all, and even their normal magic dissipates relatively quickly at range. Healing magic is too delicate to really work long-range, IMO. Melee ish range healing, maybe, and I do kinda like the idea of a healing sword (Tensaiga HO)
I dunno. I kinda like the idea of having some additional self-buffs and stuff for melee users, frankly speaking I still think they're still a bit too weak compared to mages, but there is a fair question of how much overlap you want to deal with in terms of roles. I do think staff users would still have a strong role though - unlike anyone with a melee magic weapon you actually have access to accurate-long-range, area-of-effect heals, barriers, and silences, compared to their limited short-range stuff. In a 1v1 the difference would be minor, but when you start getting into group play or god forbid army vs army sieges and the like, the staff user is going to be an absolute god.
And even aside from all that, getting a healing magic weapon is still twice as expensive as just getting a healing stave (or if you compare it to Heal, 4000 gold vs... 0 gold... good tradeoff amirite?) so it's not like anyone would be running around with a huge variety of these things. At most you might see someone get, say, a lightning sword and a teleport sword by 500 posts. Doesn't really do much to negate staff users.
Also, Imbue and Sacrifice do exist already... hmm.
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Post by Richter Abend on Jul 9, 2015 0:33:11 GMT -6
I'm not sure how I feel about staff magic weapons. I can sympathize with Remus, and while healers & staves aren't super popular, they provide some extremely powerful effects. A non-combatant with staff magic is completely different than a combatant with staff magic. That being said, mages get access to staves, so allowing fighters to get, for example, a warp sword would just be leveling the playing field.
More specifically, though, we banned Nosferatu blades specifically because healing on melee fighters was OP, and at least that had to connect to work. What's to stop a person with a healing sword from healing themselves every time they get slashed? The idea rife with potential abuse, and I'd be highly against it as a player and a mod. Likewise, strength is an obvious no, and a nightmare blade is just a worm blade on stupid-roids. I cut you and you fall alseep? Coup de gras, you're dead. If we did implement this, it would have to be limited in scope.
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