Wein Lowell
Sniper
The Noble Arrow
If you're a glory hound, then I'm king of the glory hounds
Posts: 268
Lycia Fame: 2
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Post by Wein Lowell on Jul 9, 2015 9:33:11 GMT -6
Multiple members have made comments to the staff about a "posting culture" on the board that stresses making posts over creating quality roleplay, and there is reason to believe that said culture may be related to the very way in which the board awards gold to its RPers. As it stands, we reward RPers solely for the amount of posts they create, while occasionaly handing out small rewards for participation in event threads. Thus the mods have been discussing the current way RPers on the board are rewarded, but this discussion can't really happen without the involvment with the people we are supposed to be serving.
So the question is, do you, the members, want to see a change in how gold is rewarded for RPing?
NOTE: Only vote once per RPer multiple votes from alt accounts will be disregarded.
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Borgus
Acolyte
DEAD
Getting money is easy. The ahrd part is keeping it.
Posts: 90
Profession: Bandit
OoC Alias: Butorega
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Post by Borgus on Jul 9, 2015 9:39:25 GMT -6
Butorega votes to keep the gold system the way it is. If we switch to a merit system then the mods have to read every little thread. To much work on the mods and to much overhead for me. I like things the way they are. I can do all me silly stuff I want and only get the mods involved when it is actually needed.
Sorry, but I can not resist
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Post by Donovan on Jul 9, 2015 9:45:33 GMT -6
Can we have a bit of a conversation on how you were thinking we'd reward gold as an alternative? I would personally support changing the way it's working only if its alternative made a lot more sense. I don't dislike the system as it is and the steady pacing is kind of nice.
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Harold Fleabottom
Soldier
Posts: 27
Profession: Farmer, levyman
Affinity: Thunder
OoC Alias: Oleg
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Post by Harold Fleabottom on Jul 9, 2015 9:46:53 GMT -6
Oleg has voted for the "I do not care option." Mostly because I am fine with either staying the same or changing. I shall go with the majority, as usual.
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Post by Remus on Jul 9, 2015 9:49:35 GMT -6
I personally vote for a system that is merit based. While it is nice to have the luxury to throw out a 250 word post and get credit, I think it puts out the notion that rushing roleplays without putting depth into them first is the same as taking time to make a quality roleplay. While it /would/ require moderators to review topics if the roleplayers want gold, it wouldn't be until a topic is actually /concluded/ that they'd have to do anything beyond what they already do. Given that all this does is have characters wait a bit longer to get gold, I don't see the issue. Post count is tethered towards promotions, so this literally only really effects gold. That shouldn't be so essential to people that they are impatient enough to refuse waiting a bit.
It also emphasizes quality over quantity, which generally means more fun for roleplaying as a whole. Just my opinion though!
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Post by Willow on Jul 9, 2015 9:51:08 GMT -6
I would agree with Butorega, for similar reasons.
1) A merit-based system is inherently biased, whether it is voluntary or involuntary. Differences in writing style can subconsciously color your impression of a post, as can past interactions or any sort of personal preferences. Some would win, some would lose - even assuming unbiased mods (which I believe we have).
2) Linking gold to posts ensures that people have to stick around to earn more powerful items. If some new character happens to be in a "great" thread, and earns buckets of gold, they're in a much better position than someone who makes less spectacular posts but is solid and consistent.
3) As pointed out by Butorega, it would be too much investment for the return. We have three mods and many, many non-staff characters. To read and patrol every thread would be quite time-consuming, taking away from their opportunities to post.
4) Lastly, I think that in some respects the current system and pricing discourages complaints, griping, and farming. Nobody is given more or less than anyone else; you get the same amount for every post that meets minimum criteria. This absence of human intervention means that if someone doesn't like that they only get 20 gold per post, they can't blame it on a mod 'not liking them' or something like that. It's hard to whine to a computer system.
That's just my opinion - I welcome anyone else's.
tl;dr - I think the gold system is in its optimal state as-is. No change needed.
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Wein Lowell
Sniper
The Noble Arrow
If you're a glory hound, then I'm king of the glory hounds
Posts: 268
Lycia Fame: 2
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Post by Wein Lowell on Jul 9, 2015 9:54:47 GMT -6
A potential idea is a thread review system, Donovan.
For example, after X amount of time everyone would take their X amount of favorite/best threads and put them up. A review team, whether that be mods or whoever we choose, would look over the submitted threads and would award a lump sum of gold per thread based on varying criteria.
The idea would be to have something like three tiers of reward:
-Flawed = Lesser amount of gold -Satisfactory = Standard amount of gold -Excellent = Greater amount of gold
With the majority recieving the middle tier.
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Harold Fleabottom
Soldier
Posts: 27
Profession: Farmer, levyman
Affinity: Thunder
OoC Alias: Oleg
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Post by Harold Fleabottom on Jul 9, 2015 9:59:04 GMT -6
After this explanation has been given, my vote shall still stay the same. I trust the majority of this site to know what is good for it.
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Jule
Thief
Anyone can be great.
Posts: 91
Affinity: Dark
OoC Alias: Zach
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Post by Jule on Jul 9, 2015 10:12:58 GMT -6
The idea of a merit system being implemented seems pretty sweet, but the people who would oversee it already have a lot on their plate as is. I'm more than okay with the merit system being permanently locked to event threads and the like, because that way the mods wouldn't have to constantly supervise threads that have ended, while still juggling their mod responsibilities. Even if there was another group of people supervising thread gold, I'd be worried that their bias would get in the way of getting a standard reward for a thread.
That and getting gold right after you post is something I really like. I don't like having to wait till after a thread's over to get the reward for it, doubly so if I have to submit it in and the thread doesn't do as well.
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Post by Donovan on Jul 9, 2015 10:14:45 GMT -6
But honestly, I think it is necessary to keep the gold, at least mostly, tied to posts. When I first got here, the first few threads I entered were dead in the water. They were with people who were new and didn't stick around, or old and left for a while. I wasn't sure if I was going to hang around and actually try to become a member of this community. But the consistency of getting gold immediately after every post gave me a goal to try and get to, and got me to stick around long enough to meet and write with some of the more active members of the site. Removing the post=automatic gold system would likely encourage even less new members to stick out that awkward beginning period.
I think that there a few ways that we can alter the postpostpost mentality some have complained about, without making it more difficult on the mods or creating too many of the problems that others and myself have been bringing up.
1) A combined system of getting your gold, say it's 15 gold per post instead of 20. And then you choose what you think is your best work every month, submit it to the mods and you get bonus gold for high quality threads. This would keep people consistantly posting and encourage quality work, both of which I think are necessary for keeping the site engaging and fun.
2) Keep the gold system as it is, but expand the Black ticket awards to be an even bigger event with more categories, and potentially twice a year. That way, you will get rewarded for doing your day to day thing, but you're encouraged to make a real effort to keep things crisp, exciting, and to give your character a rich, full story.
I'm sure there are other ways to encourage people to post, but these are the ones I'd personally be most encouraged by.
While I know everyone doesn't post at the speed of light, I think it is still important that people post fairly regularly so that everyone can have a good time. I do agree that we need to make post quality a priority, but quality and quantity shouldn't be one over the other. Both are important to keeping people interested and active on the board.
That's just my thought on the matter.
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Wein Lowell
Sniper
The Noble Arrow
If you're a glory hound, then I'm king of the glory hounds
Posts: 268
Lycia Fame: 2
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Post by Wein Lowell on Jul 9, 2015 10:31:32 GMT -6
Expanding on the idea of a metric and putting it here for future reference:
If a mod was reviewing a thread, and there was nothing wrong with it, even if they didn't like it, they'd give it the "standard" rate
If a mod reviewed thread and there were trainees doing ninja flips, swordsmen cutting down scores of brigands unscathed, and a lot of one liners, it would get the "needs improvement"
If the thread actually adds to the board in some way, it would get a bonus. Let's say a notable assassination plot, a siege, or any other significant event that shows a lot of thought and effort put into the thread
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Borgus
Acolyte
DEAD
Getting money is easy. The ahrd part is keeping it.
Posts: 90
Profession: Bandit
OoC Alias: Butorega
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Post by Borgus on Jul 9, 2015 10:31:39 GMT -6
How will this new system affect my village burning. At least once or twice a year I always make a topic about burning down or the failure of burning down a village. I actually like trying to take towns, it is a good way to establish a characters lvl of evil and to show the chaos in the region. Not only that it also creates Pc confrontation.
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Wein Lowell
Sniper
The Noble Arrow
If you're a glory hound, then I'm king of the glory hounds
Posts: 268
Lycia Fame: 2
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Post by Wein Lowell on Jul 9, 2015 10:35:32 GMT -6
How will this new system affect my village burning. At least once or twice a year I always make a topic about burning down or the failure of burning down a village. I actually like trying to take towns, it is a good way to establish a characters lvl of evil and to show the chaos in the region. Not only that it also creates Pc confrontation. As long as the event makes sense and the RPing is believable, there would be little change to how its done now.
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Post by Remus on Jul 9, 2015 10:37:10 GMT -6
So, I've found the best way to word my opinion.
While I think that a merit system should be in place; yes. I don't think it should entirely usurp the one we have going. At no point do I feel others should be penalized as it stands now, for character limitations and irl restrictions.
So..I'm voting that I want to see posts tethered to gold /only/ because I personally think the Merit system should encourage in a positive way. I don't think incentive of negative enforcement is healthy. Instead of "I get less gold than before because I don't have time to post as much," It should be "If I get time to post a bit more, I'll get more gold than I do already." If this was limited to a level, say by adding a limit to the submissions that they can generate per month. Maybe three or so? That way, people wont' climb over eachother to make these posts, but at the same time can still have incentive.
I'll use an example, and won't use names for it so no one is thrown under the bus.
Roleplayers A-B make two threads and have alot of time. They roleplay these two threads out over a week, cranking out roleplays with posts between 250 words and 600 words. However there was no real coherent story. It was just, kill brigands or run into eachother, or another generic encounter that doesn't really give depth. they get the basic twenty gold a post.
Roleplayers C-D roleplay out a thread of similar word count, maybe a higher average of 300-900 since sometimes we are all busy regardless of roleplay muse. However This thread of theirs gave some serious development not only to the bond between the characters, but helped one grow as a character. Perhaps they gained insight as to another mindset, or learned something new? Over-came a fear, or conquered a past demon.
In addition to getting the 20 gold per post, they receive gold for submitting it to be reviewed, and it being awarded as a high quality roleplay.
I realize that not /every/ roleplay can be super special, and as someone who enjoys slice of life roleplays; not every one will. I do not, however, believe that it should deny people who go that extra mile to write creatively should receive the same credit as those who are blatantly posting soleley for the gold. Effort SHOULD be rewarded. That's just it though. Rewarded. Lack of effort shouldn't be taxed, since at the end of the day we don't know what impeded that effort.
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Wein Lowell
Sniper
The Noble Arrow
If you're a glory hound, then I'm king of the glory hounds
Posts: 268
Lycia Fame: 2
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Post by Wein Lowell on Jul 9, 2015 10:40:55 GMT -6
I'm really appreciating all this feedback. It's nice to know where the RPers stand.
Additionally, since I can currently see the votes and you guys can't, I'm going to remind everyone that a "No" vote means leaving things EXACTLY the same. I'm hearing a lot of hybrid suggestions, and that's not matching up with what I'm seeing on the poll.
For reference:
A. I want to see a move towards a more merit based system, whether that be hybrid or otherwise B. I detest the idea of attaching gold to post count and want to see anything else C. I love the current system. Do not change it. D. I don't have time for this. Changing systems is a hassle. E. Pretty self-explanitory.
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