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Post by Vincent on Jan 30, 2017 15:42:38 GMT -6
Here is a place for ideas that are far less thorough.
Bows: they should really be divided into bows and arrows. For example a longbow, short bow, and magic bow. But silver arrows, killer arrows etc. Killer bow already states that it is an arrow based upgrade but I feel expanding on that idea with a split would help make it seem less strange. The Regal bow should also be arrow based as it is established that a regal weapon really won't be saving you from a blast, just the arm. But imagine a regal arrow can shoot through a barrier and hit a mage. Also, would regal metal stop a mage from casting?
Swords: Why no 1,000 gold throwing sword? We have ones for both the lance and axe.
Regal shields and/or armor: Oh yes, sounds super broken and maybe it is but just hide it behind a massive pay wall. If the metal exists to do this why would they not? Protection from the worst a mage can throw at you and more relevance to anti-armor weapons sounds like a win to me.
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Circe Alexandra
Mage
"But I just wanna play it right, We're gonna get there tonight"
Posts: 64
Affinity: Anima
Profile: Circe
OoC Alias: Ars Sanctum/Tsunderis
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Post by Circe Alexandra on Jan 30, 2017 16:16:37 GMT -6
Legolas plz
Dividing bows and arrows is...kind of interesting. I don't actually have any thoughts on this, given I think bows are BEYOND boring and always have, but it is a good point. Sure it doesn't follow the Fire Emblem formula or standard, but it makes sense. I don't see how the bow itself can be modified to "kill better" as opposed to the arrows that actually do the killing. Now BRAVE I can see affecting the bow. The string has less resistance but doesn't lose out on power, allowing you to fire two arrows in quicker succession than most bows would allow. But Killer, Silver, Regal to an extent, Magic to an extent, and etc. I see your point on.
However! I believe that, under the current system, it is hard implied that whatever enchantment the bow itself has CAN be fluffed to the arrows used...or both. In proper English: whatever version of bow you have covers the arrows it uses as well. Killer Bows have Killer Arrows. Killer Silver Bows fire Killer Silver Arrows.
I'm not saying this system is better or worse than the one you stated, that's just what I believe is the current system. However, if bows and arrows became separate, things are likely to get far more expensive for archers. Rather than just by all the enchantments (though if one bow is both a longbow and a shortbow then we've got a problem here and you better have a damn good way of fluffing it) they would have to purchase x type of bow, on top of x kinds of arrows. Rather than just the 2 for 1 we have going currently.
That covers Regal arrows as well...unless I'm wrong. If the BOW is what cuts through magic and not the arrow, then lol that should probably be adjusted because wtf, to be perfectly honest. However I REALLY hope don't think that's the way it is currently. Also I think if a regal arrow, or other regal metal, is inside of a mage it ought to disrupt their casting abilities but...from the sounds of it that's not the case. Regal metal literally only affects the magic that touches it and nothing else. So unless the mage takes a regal arrow to the knee when they planned on launching Volcanon flames from said knee, they likely aren't going to be bothered by the arrow any more than a REGULAR arrow would.
Winged Sword
Frankly I just don't know. Like, some improved throwing daggers/knives COULD be interesting, but idk how I feel about the actual throwing swords that, say, Fates had. That just seems hilarious/wasteful to me. Then again hand axes were portrayed as boomerangs in the GBA games so...okay the point here is that we can't just take EVERYTHING from the games otherwise we'd have people getting impaled by lances, that did no actual harm to them, and then giving you death glares even as your spear is in their body.
So like Eris if you stabbed her with her own lance or something...except she'd die.
But yeah improved throwing knives COULD be a thing but...okay tbh wtf is the actual difference between a Javelin and a Spear? A hand axe and a tomahawk? Do spears travel farther? Are they supposed to be "more powerful?" What if I have a Silver Javelin and a regular Spear? What do Spears offer that Javelins don't?
According to shop:
Javelin A smaller lance made to be thrown.
Spear A Spear that can be used for throwing.
ngl that's kind of laughable. Why bother spending the extra gold on a spear? Because it might be a bit longer? How is that rule even going to be enforced? Nobody is going around talking about their exact spear-lengths.
Hand Axe v Tomahawk is similar. Tomahawks are supposed to be "big throwing axes" while hand axes are "small throwing axes". But again uh, who is talking about the size of their axes?
I mean given that weapons can be fused through all the enchantments, like Chelsea's mega ultra bow, what's stopping you from having a Silver, Regal, Brave, Killer, Hand Axe played as a battle axe? I'm not saying you SHOULD seriously don't but what's actually stopping you?
I uh, got a bit off topic there. But I mean stronger daggers could be cool, actual throwing swords I'm just not a fan of but that doesn't explicitly mean they shouldn't exist, but as we can see we're not that great at REALLY defining what makes a stronger throwing weapon stronger. You could just say your throwing knives are Brave, Killer, Regal, Silver like all the other weapons can do.
Regalia, and not the car
I mean it doesn't really sound THAT broken. Maybe about the same level of broken that Magic Weapons are. But magic weapon justifications seem to basically be lack of control (you only need so much control to burn down half a village with one swing of your mega fire sword), lack of range (but its still a LOT more than melee range and I mean Celerity exists so nothing much to stop you from getting into like 20 feet away from your opponent) and a pay/post wall (3k for 3 Magic Seals, plus actual effort in rp for Seal 3).
Nothing to say there couldn't be limitations on Regal armor, similar pay and post walls. But I mean the issue is that we don't have any other modifiers for armor, so it would set a precedent. So then it becomes "why stop there?". "Why don't we have magic armor?"
I'm not saying these are bad questions to ask. I'm...implying they take a lot of time and effort, and a lot of communication to answer effectively, from mod perspectives at least.
I don't think we need Regal armour, though I do agree that having "Regal" metal but not being able to use that metal into just forging "Regal" armor is pretty wonky.
That said, the idea that Regal Armor could add more relevance to anti-armor weapons is actually REALLY COOL. I don't have any actual objective thoughts or points on the matter, but the idea of making an existing mechanic/weapon type significantly better by providing a proper purpose is REALLY cool.
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Post by Ilheod on Jan 30, 2017 16:51:09 GMT -6
I don't think personally there needs to be a reason for separation between arrows and bows. Yes, the augmentation of every bow, minus long and short is effectively the arrows. However the effect is over all the same and I don't think adjusting the sprites in the shop is necessary when the general understanding and roleplaying has been fine for so long concerning them. The regal bow DOES fire regal arrows. A silver bow is firing silver arrows. Implying otherwise would be absurd, as you'd be trying to thwack a zombie with a silver bow. That's not going to come off well. As for swords. Perhaps a stronger dagger to be sure, but throwing swords is a rare style one, and two it's very unwieldly and not timely in battle. Someone holding a pouch of spears or carrying a tomahawk can easily throw it swiftly with a single motion. Not so with a sword. It must be clasped by the flat of the blade, palms to the end, lifted over head after carefully shifting the body weight and thrown awkwardly. It's not possible if one has a shield or armor on that restricts the elbows to bend the way they have to. It would also be impossible from horseback realistically. So a paladin or Great Knight could use a spear or tomahawk, but would have no way to accurately roleplay a "throwing" sword. This isn't to refute the idea in totality though. The concept of a stronger throwing knife is entirely applicable. As for regal armor and a regal shield. This is, in totality far too powerful. Sure, people using magic weapons get counter play through an armor slayer. Mages however, have zero counter play. If they fight someone who has spent most of their posts buying regal armor and but a single weapon, they are now effectively useless against that individual. Not struggling, but 100% useless. Magic instantly disperses when contacting a regal substance. Arrows will travel effortlessly through a magic spell and blades cut it seamlessly as if the magic was not there to begin with. As stated in this thread, fewotw.proboards.com/thread/6115/advanced-magic-weapons Regal weapons flat out cancel magic of any caliber they cut so long as they contact it. So if someone is toting a great shield for 2k gold mage of regal metal entirely? Congratulations. You are now practically invincible to mages for the next 150 posts because they cannot brandish aoe magic very well until advanced, and even then you'll have more regal parts by then. While it would make anti-armor weapons relevant, why should that relevance come at the cost of damning mages to a new type of enemy they have zero counter-play or even options to face? Their only choice is to flee every time. --- To the points made by ars. --- The shop details do need to be more clear, this is true. To state it now until it's otherwise altered. Spears and Tomahawks are stronger versions than their cheaper counterparts. If you buy one it is a noted upgrade in throwing range/control/power. It is simply a superior version over all. Richter had a magic ice ax called Boreas that was also a large Tomahawk.
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Post by Donovan on Jan 30, 2017 17:15:24 GMT -6
The bows arrows thing is pretty much just RPing it that way anyway. I have no idea what a "Killer" bow would be. But really its just a name difference that's fairly negligible.
A stronger throwing Knife just /should/ be a thing in one way or the other, since Axes and Lances both have them. Either that or a further specialized Sword to replace the Wo Dao's purpose on the board.
Yeah, Shields getting regal is something I think, personally, should be reserved for like, black tickets or something. They have the potential to be very very over powered against mages if not balanced correctly. Armor is just a flat out no way, in my book. Mages, as Ilheod said, couldn't even damage a melee unit at that point, so not gonna work.
Though Shields are totally open for anyone who wants to use them who's a physical class.
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Post by Nayru Al-Saiduq on Jan 30, 2017 18:56:44 GMT -6
Eyy someone who ISN'T me spamming suggestions, I like it.
-As noted, bows already pretty much come with that variety of arrow. The idea of mixing say, Silver bow and Killer arrows is kinda interesting, but bows are already insanely strong as-is, just boring/underused.
-f**k throwing swords. They're probably the dumbest thing in Awakening/Fates. I have no issues whatsoever with very high quality throwing knives though, I think it's a fair point that either every melee weapon type should have an uber thrown or none of them should. Does seem like there should be a better explanation of WHY they're better, though. Uber knives for example should probably have extended range and be perfectly balanced for accuracy as well. Maybe Spears have extended range and power, while Tomahawks have better power and accuracy? I dunno. Just some random thoughts.
-I sympathize with the general issue of regal metal but not armor, but certain melee approaches are already brokenly overpowered atm and REALLY don't need to become even further superior to mages. I think adding even more regal stuff is completely unnecessary and magic weapons need to stop getting buffed so you can be even more broken. Being able to almost COMPLETELY shut down an entire set of classes for 1BT doesn't seem very fair either.
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