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Post by Matthias on Jan 9, 2007 11:01:54 GMT -6
gee, that's a tough one. Heath. Moving on...
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Post by Alan on Jan 9, 2007 12:45:26 GMT -6
Well I wouldn't say that too quickly. Heath doesn't have all that much going for him. He comes at lvl. 7 at Chapter 21, Kinship's Bond, Living Legend and Genesis are bad training chapters for him to say the least and though there are quite a few swordsmen in Four-Fanged Offense that level gap is tough to fill. Vaida is a decent filler, though you really should have your team assembled by now.
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Post by Matthias on Jan 10, 2007 12:05:19 GMT -6
Vaida isn't just bad, she'd fugly and bad. if you're going to use a wyvern rider (and my position on the subject is negative), then you should be using Heath. It's not a contest, it's a give-in.
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Post by Alan on Jan 11, 2007 2:05:02 GMT -6
Look if you don't want to provide arguments to back your case up then don't, okay?
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Post by Matthias on Jan 11, 2007 10:44:04 GMT -6
HP STR SKL SPD LCK DEF RES
60% 45% 25% 40% 30% 25% 15% Vaida
80% 50% 50% 45% 30% 20% 30% Heath
Okay, since you wanna be a smart-ass about it... The first growth rates are Vaida's; the second, Heath's. As one notes, she does not beat out Heath in any category. In fact, she's got substantially less than him in some important, wyvern-related categories. Let's see, should I pick someone who gets 20% less HP growth, when I want to create a tank? Or how about that doubled RES growth? On everything but Luck, Heath owns Vaida. And in luck? Well, would you look at that, they're tied.
Vaida is crap. You shouldn't be using her, period. If you needed someone for your team by that point, you should restart your game. Heath at least, is a decent unit. True, you're going to have to be careful for all of one chapter. By then, he should be doing alright.
Of course, wyvern riders are inferior units... They're supposed to be tanks, but they fail miserable. Axes, bows, and magic all own them, horribly. Then, there are lance changing weapons. With a 45% strength growth, Heath ain't gettin' the strength he needs to significantly hurt much of anything, besides myrmidons. Pegasus Riders can not only kill myrmidons, but they do a number on any and all magic users (where wyvern riders die, miserably).
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Post by Matthias on Jan 11, 2007 10:50:15 GMT -6
it's saying Isadora can compete with Sain and Kent...
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Post by Alan on Jan 11, 2007 12:30:52 GMT -6
You're not even going to try... NEXT!
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Flyssa
The "Before" years
[M:-325]
Posts: 114
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Post by Flyssa on Jan 12, 2007 12:14:05 GMT -6
ZOMG, does anyone even read what I write o.o I don't think many people care about the verages so its pointless here.
Anyways Matthias is at least putting (for lack of a better term =|) the topic up with his posts, which is helpful I guess. And I haven't seen many replies for my stat based arguments.
But nevertheless. Vaida > Heath.
Heath fails. Comes in at level 7, not that strong till later on. Vaida is more of a filler unit I guess but by the time you get Heath you should probably have a flyer already and if you don't, you probably won't need Heath anyways. Heath requires baby sitting and his stats aren't much better than the Peg. sisters.
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Flyssa
The "Before" years
[M:-325]
Posts: 114
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Post by Flyssa on Jan 12, 2007 12:27:04 GMT -6
ZOMG, does anyone even read what I write o.o I don't think many people care about the verages so its pointless here.
Anyways Matthias is at least putting (for lack of a better term =|) the topic up with his posts, which is helpful I guess. And I haven't seen many replies for my stat based arguments.
But nevertheless. Vaida > Heath.
Heath fails. Comes in at level 7, not that strong till later on. Vaida is more of a filler unit I guess but by the time you get Heath you should probably have a flyer already and if you don't, you probably won't need Heath anyways. Heath requires baby sitting and his stats aren't much better than the Peg. sisters.
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Post by Matthias on Jan 12, 2007 14:20:24 GMT -6
I'm not even going to try? What makes you say that? I put forth the stat based argument, which is harder then hell to debunk. I also pointed out that you're one argument for Vaida (filler unit) is bad, as you shouldn't need a filler unit by that point, and if you do, you're better off choosing someone else (anyone else).
So, i've posted reasoning for my belief, complete with hard facts. I've also shown how your one stance proves to be erroneous. So far, you're argument fails.
Flyssa, by the time you put up your stats, we've had a lot of the stuff decided. Several times, it is a key factor, other times, it's a bit late. I admit, I didn't respond to the one where you compared Rath's strengths, but I certainly paid close attention.
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Zeiss
The "Before" years
Mysterious, Sarcastic Shaman[M:-5]
"I herd u liek Lotus Tilez?"
Posts: 256
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Post by Zeiss on Jan 13, 2007 4:38:49 GMT -6
If growths were everything, Matthias then perhaps you were right.
Heath Lvl: 7 Hp: 28 Str: 11 Skl: 8 Spd: 7 Def: 10 Res: 1 Lck: 7 Con: 9
Lances: B Affinity: Thunder
Vaida Lvl: 9* Hp: 43 Str: 20 Skl: 19 Spd: 13 Def: 21 Res: 6 Lck: 11 Con: 12
Lances: A Swords: A Affinity: Fire
Vaida comes at lvl. 9 promoted with A in both weapon classes and has Fire affinity. Heath best support is Vaida, by the way. I already said that you probably already have a full team by then but I don't see any situation in which you would use Heath but not Vaida. Let's say that Heath DOES gain 22 levels between Kinship's Bond and Cog of Destiny (8 chapters at best).
Heath lvl: 9* Hp: 49 Str: 21 Skl: 21 Spd: 18 Def: 16 Res: 7 Lck: 11 Con: 10
Hp: Heath by 7 Str: Heath by 1 Skl: Heath by 2 Spd: Heath by 5 Def: Vaida by 5 Res: Heath by 1 Lck: Tie Con: Vaida by 2
Heath is better now, but do you really think it's worth the effort, Matthias.
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Post by Matthias on Jan 13, 2007 16:33:04 GMT -6
Actually, I do. I'd prefer to spend a little extra effort to get a better unit. I'm also seeing a vastly better unit in Heath. Also, that's his levels at her level. By the time they both hit 20/20, he's going to be even better. As for supports, you have to look at people you're using. You're probably not going to support Heath with Vaida. But, you could support him with both Kent and Priscilla, both units that are good on their own. If memory serves, Vaida supports with mostly bad units (Harken, Merlinus, Dorcas, to name a few). Admittedly, I never use Vaida, because she's an inferior unit... He'd be even better, true, if he came in earlier. But, he does come in early on a mission that's good to level units. And he has several other good levels to grow on. Since he's not a God-awful unit (see Vaida) he can also be trained with little trouble.
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Post by Alan on Jan 14, 2007 5:39:56 GMT -6
Actually, I do. I'd prefer to spend a little extra effort to get a better unit. I'm also seeing a vastly better unit in Heath. Also, that's his levels at her level. By the time they both hit 20/20, he's going to be even better. As for supports, you have to look at people you're using. You're probably not going to support Heath with Vaida. But, you could support him with both Kent and Priscilla, both units that are good on their own. If memory serves, Vaida supports with mostly bad units (Harken, Merlinus, Dorcas, to name a few). Admittedly, I never use Vaida, because she's an inferior unit... He'd be even better, true, if he came in earlier. But, he does come in early on a mission that's good to level units. And he has several other good levels to grow on. Since he's not a God-awful unit (see Vaida) he can also be trained with little trouble. First off, I already stated that it's unlikely that he would hit 20/9 so extremely fast but there isn't a single unit in the game that will get to 20/20 without special treatment. Next, you know very well that Harken is a great unit and Vaida is Fire affinty in case you haven't noticed. She also supports Canas. And you really think that Kinship's Bond is a good chapter for leveling? Even though it has a time limit? (9 turns and it's over.) or did you mean Living Legend? The chapter of which 90% of the enemy units are either axe users, magic users or bowmen?
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Post by Matthias on Jan 15, 2007 19:19:36 GMT -6
Harken is not a great unit, but I'll leave that, since we've already argued that point. Secondly, the point on 20/20 is a falsehood. Look at my post in FE characters, where MY ENTIRE TEAM hit 20/20. It's not that hard to do in Hector's modes, with the extra chapters (particularly the later one, where Farina joins, the one with tons of units to kill).
I could've sworn there were more turns to level on. Though, I will point out that it isn't the best chapter for heath to level on. Those ballistae are placed so they will shred him.
Okay, so Vaida has Canas, that's one. And Canas has better support options (Bartre and Nino jump to mind, though most people don't like Nino, for some reason, but that's another post).
He probably won't reach 20/9 that fast, but he'll most likely reach 20/20 by the time it's all over.
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Post by Alan on Jan 16, 2007 1:23:52 GMT -6
The fact that you overlevel your unit's, is your problem not ours.
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